Gruppi metal Satanici

Vorrei porre a voi una domanda. I gruppi metal satanici, vedi Deicide ecc. 10 - 12 anni fa erano tali probabilmente per dire "trasgrediamo e boicottiamo il cristianesimo". Non credete che al giorno d'oggi un gruppo per dirsi veramente trasgressivo deve dimostrarsi Cristiano Cattolico Praticante ?

 

Sarebbe molto rivoluzionario!!!!
Cmq è un genere che esiste (metal bianco)! :wink:

 

No assolutamente. Una volta erano anticristiani sul serio, poi tutte le band sono salite sul carrozzone del falso satanismo. Dimostrarsi cattolico e suonare roba tipo deicide non è trasgressivo, è ridicolo, c'è TOTALE incoerenza tra musica e testi!

qui di sotto ti riporto una interessantissima discussione proprio su questo tema avvenuta in in forum di veri luminari del metal:

Allied Metal Legions
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> Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal

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thedarkangelinhell
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Posts: 238
(5/17/03 2:30:46 pm)
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Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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I've noticed this happening for some time, many bands no longer have Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal, there are even fucking Christian Death Metal Bands!
A few still continue as I believe they should do, Mithras, Serenade to name a few.
Anyway I wondered what others thoughts were on this subject, what has caused this over the years,
How can it have become like this with Death being something against Christian beliefs, and some calling themselves Death Metal without having lyrical content concerning death...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

ArmageddonsChild
Registered User
Posts: 62
(5/17/03 3:13:21 pm)
Reply Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Death metal is largely spent as a creative force. It has largely become (like hardcore before it) a bottomless pit mined for aesthetic elements by every asshat with something to sell, but that's the way the world operates.
Hope is not the Fool's dream of,"Onward, ever upward." Hope is the certain knowledge that even in tragedy lie the seeds of beauty.

-----



Uncle Adolf's Easy Three Step Plan For Inconvenient People

Step 1: Gas

Step 2: Cremate

Step 3: Repeat




Tomb Of Insomnia
TYPHOOOON!!!!!!
Posts: 5197
(5/17/03 4:04:03 pm)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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"I've noticed this happening for some time, many bands no longer have Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal..."

That part doesn't really bother me. As long as they don't push hippie ideals onto the listeners, I couldn't care less.

"...there are even fucking Christian Death Metal Bands!"

This part bothers me. Christian Death Metal makes much sense as Christian Black Metal or Unblack. If you wanna play evil sounding music, then you must have lyrics that compliment the music.


drtboi
Registered User
Posts: 102
(5/17/03 6:14:22 pm)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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First, I don't think death metal has any anti-christian requirement (though I prefer it that way). Christian death metal is absurd, yet somewhat fitting, seeing as christianity is a death-obsessed cult. I doubt, though, that the correct emphasis is put on death. More likely, as with all Christian-with-a-capital-C bands in all genres, they use the aesthetic as a pulpit to further spread their disease.

Anyway, the mellowing of lyrical content in death metal has to do with cultural assimilation due to how long it's been around. Listen to Possessed's "Seven Churches". When I first heard that album, in the late 80s, it sounded like pure evil, recorded in the pits of hell. It was barely music to my ears, accustomed as they were to Slayer, Metallica, Iron Maiden, etc.. For years, Possessed is what I thought of when I saw the words "death metal." But with time, my ear grew accustomed to harsh noises in music, to the point where Suffocation's much more brutal sound doesn't seem nearly as harsh to me as the first time I heard Possessed. And even though death metal isn't terribly popular on the radio, enough of the sound has trickled down through mainstream pseudo-metal acts that people with a much more mainstream mentality have learned to appreciate the sound.

And the whole melodic death thing hasn't helped any. Maybe you can blame it on Heartwork?

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 239
(5/18/03 9:57:30 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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"Death metal is largely spent as a creative force."
I do not believe this to be true, it has become more difficult to create a unique piece of music, but it can still be acheived as with Black Metal...
I do think that Death Metal has to have an Anti-Christian sentiment, mainly due to the fact that with Christians of today, and what I see them to stand for, Death Metal as lyrical content goes against many of their misguided beliefs, they do not wish to be reminded of the Death their cult caused in the past...
Melodic Death has become more excepted I think, unlike the more brutal sounding Death...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

ShroudOfDespondency
Registered User
Posts: 1046
(5/18/03 12:18:42 pm)
Reply Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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ahoy


the only thing i can think is that you are prentending to care about such petty bullshit. that is about the ONLY reason i can come up with as to why this topic would ever fucking matter to a person who loves music. Or maybe its just that you havent learned to mind your own business and let people do whatever it is that makes them happy in this world. Or wait, thats far to hippy eh?


Do you listen to any other music that ISNT metal? any music that presents a total different 'message'?? Music with messages of Love,happiness, or just plain silliness exists and alot of it with just as much talent, if not more talent, than metal. I suggest you broaden your mind a bit.
Should i pursue a path so twisted?
Should i crawl,defeated and gifted?
Everything ive done, ive done for you. Oh i give my life to you.

drtboi
Registered User
Posts: 104
(5/18/03 2:08:59 pm)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Hmm...

I think your assertions go beyond the scope of the topic.

Mozart's "Requiem" is a great piece of christian music.
"Exile on Main Street" is one of the best blues rock albums ever.
"Abbey Road" is a great piece of guitar pop.
"Orbus Terrarum" is about as good as pop/dub could ever hope to be.

And etc., and etc., ad infinitum.

But those works are most definitely not covered by the topic "Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal". That lack of inclusion doesn't make them any less great.

The forum under which this topic exists, the "Tyrant's Circle", is about " Relevant issues concerning the underground metal movement, in need of discussion, intended for full, in depth consumption." If you think about it, that description encourages hair-splitting and in-depth discussion.

Maybe I've misunderstood your point, but it looks to me like you're running blindly into a room, fists swinging, because you heard something you think you disagree with. If I'm wrong, my apologies. If I'm right - look out, you're making the neo-nazis look reasonable.

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 240
(5/19/03 11:14:51 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Agreed with drtboi, this forum isn't for such a discussion if you do post on these subjects at least stay within the topic frames, instead of ranting about subjects which do not relate to underground metal...
If you have something usefull to contribute then do, otherwise do not post on such subjects...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

ShroudOfDespondency
Registered User
Posts: 1048
(5/20/03 1:19:17 pm)
Reply Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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hails


My point is this. Why do you need set rules(and im sorry, saying shit like "theres not enough anti christian sentiment in death metal" is setting a rule in your mind that this form of music HAS to be about one set thing) when it concerns music? so many metalfans are like this and its exactly the same mentality that ruins spirituality by turning into organized religion. Music needs to fucking rules. If there is a death metal band who sings about pink rabbits and plays their instruments with originality and talent, why should it be any different than a satanic band like morbid angel??? I think its weak minded highschool fake bullshit to NEED rules like that within your mind....those types of statements exist only to convince yourself that you are a 'part' of something....its scenster/herd mentality, and im sorry it just rubs me the wrong way, especially when it comes from people claiming to be strong minded.

The non metal releases you mentioned are 'moving' and meaningful simply because they followed no rules, they were individual pieces of art. If you make music more than that, your no different than a fucking christian(the christians so many 'true' folk claim to despise).
Should i pursue a path so twisted?
Should i crawl,defeated and gifted?
Everything ive done, ive done for you. Oh i give my life to you.

drtboi
Registered User
Posts: 105
(5/20/03 3:26:28 pm)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Genre classifications are a sort of shorthand, and useful to avoid overly-verbose descriptions. I'll leave caring intensely about such things to those who care intensely about them.

I am interested in the nature of things. Nitpicking about genres is therefore interesting to me. I'd suggest you not participate in such discussions, if that doesn't interest you.

Which isn't to gloss over my delight in anti-christian sentiment. Lyrics about raping the corpse of Christ are always welcome, in my book. And of course, I prefer lyrics that express a world view disconnected from christian values.

Sadly, most bands, particularly those playing the metal of death, write terrible lyrics, anyway. It's often better to read them once, then try to forget the horror.

But this whole digression is off-topic. Maybe you should start a topic in the Tyrant's Circle about the potential problems of balkanization caused by too much faith in metal sub-genres.

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 245
(5/21/03 8:07:40 am)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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SoD again you do not appear to understand metal...

"Why do you need set rules(and im sorry, saying shit like "theres not enough anti christian sentiment in death metal" is setting a rule in your mind that this form of music HAS to be about one set thing) when it concerns music?"

Quite simple, Death Metal as well as Black Metal is inherantly Anti-Christian due to it's subject matter, Death Metal is about Death and Black Metal is about dark subjects, hence their names.

"If there is a death metal band who sings about pink rabbits and plays their instruments with originality and talent, why should it be any different than a satanic band like morbid angel???"

Again very simple, that would never happen, Death metal metal is about death, it's like having Mayhem's "Chainsaw Gutfuck" with the lyrics saying "I'm so happy, oh so happy"
It would never fucking work...

"I think its weak minded highschool fake bullshit to NEED rules like that within your mind....those types of statements exist only to convince yourself that you are a 'part' of something....its scenster/herd mentality, and im sorry it just rubs me the wrong way, especially when it comes from people claiming to be strong minded."

Actually these staement exist for the simple reason that in the writer's opinion it is true, as well as many other, and to me it appears that you make statements like this often and no-one agrees with them, I make these statements for obvious reasons and people with the understanding of this know exactly why I discuss such matters...

"If you make music more than that, your no different than a fucking christian(the christians so many 'true' folk claim to despise)."

Interesting, perhaps again you should take my advice and read the work of Northwind or Tundra, you may finally understand these subjects and leave them to those who have an interest in them,

As drtboi said this is off subject, if you wish to continue with such things you should start a different topic,

So let us continue with the initial subject I created...






The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

ShroudOfDespondency
Registered User
Posts: 1049
(5/21/03 3:11:20 pm)
Reply Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Oh man. That was fuuuuny shit man. Thank you. Your right i dont understand metal. HA! Stupid brainwashed little boy, you need to go read some more METAL zines. You can take your understanding of metal and stick it up your ass. My understanding of music(and guess what that includes metal) goes farther than your little brain could ever imagine.

Whether anyone agress with me does not matter to me(and believe me, i get alot of emails saying 'hey man i respect what your saying and totally agree') and its funny that you need the approval of your lil gang. You soooo elite. HA!
Should i pursue a path so twisted?
Should i crawl,defeated and gifted?
Everything ive done, ive done for you. Oh i give my life to you.

drtboi
Registered User
Posts: 108
(5/21/03 3:53:24 pm)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Quote:
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So let us continue with the initial subject I created...
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I haven't been listening to much new death metal, lately. The last new DM album I bought was Immolation, "Unholy Cult", which is pretty set for anti-christian sentiment. Everything else has pretty much been back-purchases of shit I've lost or never had.

Of which bands do you speak?



Metal Nightmare
Registered User
Posts: 1320
(5/22/03 9:45:28 am)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Ignoring most of the other posts here, and going all the way back to the top, I think the author of this post was referring to the fact that most death metal bands today have started focusing on lyrics of gore, mutilation, and post-mortem rape.

However, there are still bands like Immolation, Deicide, and Vital Remains who do focus on the satanic side of life.
www.geocities.com/metalnightmarezine

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 248
(5/22/03 1:09:56 pm)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Yes the origanal post, detracting from the subject is pointless and counter productive of my original idea behind what I stated, also such post have no understanding of what is behind the music... And I have no interest in teaching people true values...

Yes some do focus on the death itself, which is fitting to the musical style, the darker more occult lyrical content I always find interesting, I recieved one sampler cd a while ago, and it was aparantly Death metal, yet it had political lyrics, as well as other which have nothing to do with death etc. This I see as a problem...

drtboi, I have a few releases that I think you would find interesting, Mithras and Serenade... I could make dubs of them if you want...





The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

drtboi
Registered User
Posts: 109
(5/22/03 2:55:22 pm)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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I would be interested in that. I've heard about Mithras, but I haven't heard them. I'm not too into the sounds I've been hearing lately in death metal - sort of over-produced and too busy. Nile comes to mind as a good example. Their very technically adept, and have a couple of great songs on any given album, but the sound wears thin after about 15 minutes. I have three of their CDs, but really, I don't need more than one of them.

Fortunately, there's still a big backlog of bands I haven't heard. I just got Mortem's "The Devil Speaks in Tongues" from Decius, and it's an excellent album.

SSBeastInHeat
Registered User
Posts: 38
(5/23/03 12:20:24 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Why should there be antichristian sentiment in death metal? Is death metal not just about death, gore and mutilation?

Is black metal not the genre where one should spread his ideologies?



I have all the characteristics of a human being: Blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust.



BelezaghalDiplocephalus
Registered User
Posts: 126
(5/23/03 5:04:00 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Quote:
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Is black metal not the genre where one should spread his ideologies?
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No. All metal should have these ideologies if you ask me.



thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 250
(5/23/03 9:47:04 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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drtboi, drop me an e-mail: [email protected], and we can arrange a trade of somekind, I'll try and remember the bands that don't have Anti-Christian sentiment, but I think I destroyed the CD at some point...
I do agree that all Metal must have idealogies, without these Metal would not be what it is...




The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

Tribalchemy
Registered User
Posts: 55
(5/23/03 10:01:24 am)
Reply Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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I didn't collided with many xtian death Metal albums to be fair .... think it depends where you find albums, the latest DM stuff I got was VILE, old school, great sound, no doubt, no church bells inside ....

NP - BURIAL 'Pale Shade of Humanity'
Blackness,
www.DemonicHorde.com



- NO FEAR -

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 253
(5/23/03 10:47:04 am)
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Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Haven't heard VILE, much of the problem I think comes from the newer bands, who don't understand metal, they think it'll be fun to do a Death Metal band, the same with Black Metal, some of these come from the punk scene, or hardcare scene...
The older bands, that have been around for a while have a better understanding I think, but some are still Xtian...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

I Butcher
Registered User
Posts: 1509
(5/25/03 9:55:50 pm)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Not just one, but myriad different ideologies

But for me to hear a (so-called ) Death Metal band having lyrics about puppies, flowers, etc ... since I can hear the words in alot of cases it's hard for me to ignore 'em, sure I might be able to enjoy the music ( ? ) but if it's about gay shit like peace + love + bullshit I sure have a hard time enjoying it, I feel like I'm being preached at, if I want this shit I'll go to fuckiing church...

I don't blame those who criticize the cliche's ( the stereotypes practically give license for this !! ) but after a certain "movement" has been around there's bound to be a stagnation, partially caused by too many bands joining in who don't truly feel (and therefore can NOT ... EVER ... (even dream of ! ) the darkness...

... instead just wanting to be a part of something which they can't grasp what it's even about

I appreciate many different forms of music but I also acknowlege their definitions, to me it's more than just sounds pleasing to my ears ....

I won't say there can't be such thing as a band preaching xian lyrics to Black Metal "styled" music, but I will NEVER agree to it being Black Metal... same goes for Death Metal, these musicks are for those who feel the sickness, this must NEVER be forgotten.

edit b/c my typing is shit



rebarbative.mercurous.net

Edited by: I Butcher at: 5/25/03 9:57:57 pm

thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 263
(5/26/03 11:58:18 am)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Agreed completely, this is in some respects the point that I wished to make, such bands do not belong within the scenes, none of this is truely what it claims to be...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"

SSBeastInHeat
Registered User
Posts: 45
(5/28/03 5:48:00 am)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what about all the heavy metal and most death metal bands without ideologies?

How long have ideologies played such a big role in metal as they do now? I know that there were lots of thrash metal bands who stood in for nature, as there are lots of black metal bands doing the same now. But it seems like it's become bigger lately with all the newer nsbm bands etc.

I have all the characteristics of a human being: Blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust.



thedarkangelinhell
Administrator
Posts: 269
(5/28/03 11:52:36 am)
Reply
Re: Lack of Anti-Christian sentiment in Death Metal
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Quote:
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So what about all the heavy metal and most death metal bands without ideologies?
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Many of these bands do not understnd the meaning of what they say they are a part of, true Heavy Metal has it's own set of rules, agenda's etc, seperate from the Black and Death Metal, I see it as a completely different scene, as for the Death Metal bands, they should not be seen as part of the Death scene in my opinion...


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long have ideologies played such a big role in metal as they do now? I know that there were lots of thrash metal bands who stood in for nature, as there are lots of black metal bands doing the same now. But it seems like it's become bigger lately with all the newer nsbm bands etc.
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Since the beginning, but they have been watered down over the years due to Xtian influence, relating Black and Death to life affirming topics etc. Nature must be respected, yes but so must death... death being more important within the said scene. A few bands started it off and it's become a trend in some respects...


The Dark Angel,

Forefather:
"The ranks of our fyrd are ever-growing and we ask you to join us on this unique musical journey into the distant unknown. Over river and stream and through forest and field we'll march with fire in our eyes, like the forefathers of old. Wassail!"


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Sta cosa enorme pero' e'ì un po' scomoda o__O

Cmq, boh... penso sia inutile parlare di satanismo senza una adeguata e SERIA cultura esoterica dietro
e' solo scena...

per essere anticristiani si possono fare cose meno "poser" :P

 

se quei gruppi lo facevano solo per essere trasgressivi allora erano quello ke sono gl islipknot ora... non credo lo facessero per essere trasgressivi e farsi fihgi, quanto per un certo "ributto" verso com' era la situazione socialee gli ideali ke treasmetteva...

mmmmmmm....

 

Scomoda forse per quelli che non sono interessati a discutere su un tema interessante come quello lanciato da BurzumForever ...
In ogni caso qui la cultura esoterica non serve, si sta parlando di metal anticristiano, non su come essere satanisti.

 

" " la mia fava, non ho sempre tempo di leggere 5 pagine di roba... e lo dico io che l'inglese lo leggo come l'italiano :P
Voglio vedere quanti leggeranno...

Eppoi figurati, IO che non voglio discutere...

 

ti dico l'esistenza di 3 per me grandissimi gruppi di Metal Cristiano

STRYPER
DELIVERANCE
TOURNIQUET

 

"

se non hai tempo (o non lo trovi) vuol dire che non ti interessa, perciò lascia stare.

 

il forum, per quanto interessante, non e' in cima alla lista delle mie priorita'... fatti i cazzi tuoi herr tsjuder

 

se c'è uno che deve farsi i cazzi tuoi sei tu che sei venuto a rovinare le discussioni degli altri. Ripeto, se non ti interessa, stanne fuori.

 

secondo me la trasgressione risiede principalmente nell'estremismo, di qualunque forma, più o meno genuina.

 

Sicuramente, ma qui si sta anche parlando di quello che è praticamente una "trasgressione" standardizzata. Come ho già detto sopra, che senso avrebbe avere come musica quella dei Deicide e come testi roba del tipo "dio ci salverà tutti, alleluja alleluja w cristo, w la felicità ohilì ohilà" ?

 

per me (ma credo non solo per me) non avrebbe senso, però tieni conto che ci sono cristiani che il messaggio pacifico lo cagano solo di striscio. sono sicuro che di testi da abbinare a musica veloce e aggressiva ne troverebbero un bel po'.