Paradise Lost interview (Nick Holmes)

Interview by Davide Sciaky

Puoi leggere l’intervista in italiano qui.

Hello Nick, welcome to TrueMetal.it. You’re about to release “Ascension” five years after “Obsidian” came out. Five years is a long time span between Paradise Lost albums, is there any particular reason for this longer wait?

Well, the pandemic was two years, and usually we have a three-year cycle with albums. So, the pandemic added another two on. That’s pretty much that’s the main reason. I guess we would have started writing an album earlier had it not been for that, really.

Right. So, I’ve been listening to this album for a few days now. I really like it and it really reminds me partly of your older catalogue stuff like “Draconian Times”, but also it goes in other directions, in my opinion, really showing the experience you acquired since then in all the different eras of your career. I was wondering if you feel like this album could be considered as a good way to sum up what Paradise Lost music is about.

Yeah, I think so, because it’s quite varied. There are songs that we started writing quite a long time ago, probably maybe even before the pandemic, perhaps. I’m not even sure. I can’t remember that far back. [Laughs] But there’s certainly songs we started writing, then we kind of put them on a shelf and then we brought them back out again when we put the album together. And there’s newer songs that were written in the last year or so. I mean, I can tell in my head which ones were new and which were older. But I guess that passage of time during the writing process made the songs a lot more varied. And there are definitely elements of older albums. But I mean, even when we re-recorded the “Icon” album, we kind of went back and had a little bit of nostalgia about how we used to write songs back then. It was obviously before there was no internet or anything like that. So, we had to kind of be in the same room with a big ghetto blaster, as they used to be called. So, yeah, it was interesting to see how we wrote the songs and how we kind of arrange the songs and et cetera. So that had a little bit of a kind of an amount of, “Oh, let’s see if we can still do that kind of vibe”, you know. I guess a song like “Silence Like the Grave” and “Deceivers” is very reminiscent of something around the “Icon” era. But it’s not the case of, “Oh, let’s try and make it sound like “Icon””, because we’ve never done that ever. You know, we never really thought, OK, let’s try and make this. I mean, we keep we move forward all the time. But if there’s any kind of nod or a tip of the hat to any previous albums or any songs that we’ve done in the past, then I guess it’s better than a tip of the hat to another band, you know. So, I don’t mind copying ourselves. [Laughs]

You really got to where I wanted to go next with my next question. A few days ago, I was talking with Michael Schenker, who told me he doesn’t listen to any music because he wouldn’t want to be influenced by other bands and musicians. He wants to stay true to his own vision. I was wondering if this is something that ever worried you, like being exposed to external influences could water down your vision.

I don’t think it would now. I mean, I don’t think it would now anywhere, really, because I couldn’t imagine hearing a new band that gave me the same level of passion that we had when we started the band, because I consume music differently now than when I was younger. And the bands that I liked originally that give me massive passion, I still love those bands. I still listen to those bands with the same level of passion that I did when I was a teenager. So, you know, I haven’t heard a band that’s made me, you know, worship them since I was probably in my early 20s or earlier than that. I can kind of think, “Oh, that’s a great song, I like the band” and I can turn it off and I forget about it. But it’s not like I have to listen to it again and again. And, you know, it’s different, maybe it’s an age thing, but I take music differently [nowadays]. Again, I’m open to anything, but generally, when I listen to music, I still listen to the old shit. [Laughs]

There’s nothing recent that really excites you in the same way as those older bands?

I mean, like I said, doing this as a career for 37 years and just age in itself, I guess I just listen to music a little bit differently, unless I’ve been drinking and then I become a teenager again when I’ve been drinking, you know. So, yeah, that’s the danger. [Laughs]

As you mentioned, you re-recorded Icon a couple of years ago and you said that added sort of influence on the way you work. Is it just on the way you work, like, you wanted to go back to working together in the same room, or did it have an influence also on the sound?

No, it was the sound and the vibes of the songs, because I mean, around that album and “Draconian Times” – that came pretty much right after it -, around that time, the songs were very uptempo. They were very kind of eighties, that kind of nineties, splashy drum sound, very arena rock type, big choruses, a lot of bands had a very similar feel around that time. And a lot of the production was very similar on a lot of albums. And there was a real sort of vibe, that nineties vibe. Just to get a little bit of that, because we haven’t done anything like that for a long time. And then also the singing style. I mean, I haven’t sung like the Icon sort of voice for a long time. So, we brought a bit of that, but from my perspective, it just adds a little bit more of a layer to it. It just makes things a little bit more interesting, but as far as the writing process, we still write exactly the same as we have done the last 15 years. It was just more of an afterthought, maybe, when we were writing, composing the tracks.

Right. And you mentioned your singing style. As someone who doesn’t sing, it feels very demanding on your voice. I guess 30 years later, maybe it could even get harder to do that. Or do  you have a way to do that which makes it easy for you?

I tend to take care of myself in general more than I did when I was in my 20s anyway. So, you know, I don’t stay out late drinking all night. I don’t do anything like that anymore, which is parcel package of being a young guy, I guess. And especially out on the road, drinking, et cetera, blah, blah. So, I kind of look after myself a lot more in general. Also, when I joined Bloodbath, I was doing Bloodbath shows and Paradise Lost shows like the day after. So, I had to figure out how I’m going to be able to do both. It’s just a case of getting used to the breathing techniques and the kind of style and what I can and what I can’t do. So, it’s just a case of kind of getting used to it and you just got to take care. But I do anyway, because, like I said, I’m not a young guy anymore. So, it’s kind of natural to just say, “Okay, I’m not going out tonight”. You know, it’s easy now. Well, not always easy, but… [chuckles]

And when you announced that you were going to release this re-recording of Icon, you said it was mostly a matter of rights that were in the hands of your label and you wanted to get them back to you. Do you feel that if that wasn’t the case, you would have been interested in re-recording an album either way or it was just mostly about that?

It’s kind of, it’s mostly about that because it’s nice to own the thing that you’ve done. I mean, it is mostly about that, and if you’re never going to own anything that you’ve done, it’s not great for an artist, really. Yeah, it was about that. But when we were initially asked about it, we just said, no, we’re not going to do it. But then we always say that and we always do it. So, it’s usually the same response.
– Do you want to re-record it?
– No.
– I think you should.
– All right.
And that’s usually the level of the emails that kind of come. [Laughs] It’s usually like that for most things. But, yeah, it was an interesting [experiment], we didn’t know if we could have done it. But, I quite enjoyed re-recording, actually. I know it was kind of hard for Greg and the guys with the timing because there was no click track or anything like that back then. It was all kind of loose drumming. A lot of that needed a lot of work. But, from my perspective, I quite enjoyed kind of tackling that voice again, you know.

Going back to “Ascension”, the artwork for this album is a painting from the 19th century, The Court of Death from George Frederick Watts. Why did you choose to go with a pre-existing piece of art instead of commissioning one like you’ve always done in the past?

For that reason, because we’ve always commissioned someone [our artworks]. When you see kind of classic artwork on album covers, we’ve always liked that. A lot of time there’s limitations with if it’s available, can you actually use it because of the copyright, et cetera, et cetera. There’s a lot of that element can creep in with that. But Greg found the artwork and it just totally clicked and I liked it as soon as I saw it. But it’s quite rare that, I mean, artwork is incredibly subjective anyway. After you’ve done the album, it’s usually the one thing that causes more emails than any other discussion because some people might love it, some people might hate it. And then it can be argumentative with artworks. It’s a weird thing. But with this, it was great because we just landed on the same page immediately and it was very easy after that. But, yeah, getting the cover can always be a bit of a pain.

From the album’s very name, “Ascension”, to songs like “Serpent on the Cross” and “Salvation”, there is quite a lot of times when you delve into the religious theme. Can we consider it a bit of a common theme for the whole album? And how do you approach this, like, what’s your point of view on that, in these songs?

I mean, we’ve always approached religious imagery, it kind of fascinates us. I mean, you know, we’re big fans of religious iconography, but it is purely from a visual aspect. None of us are religious at all. I mean, as far as religion goes, or any belief system, I’m more interested in what makes people believe in that, than the actual belief itself. I find that far more fascinating. And whatever personal belief system anybody has, that’s their business, and that’s fine by me. But sometimes, why someone goes here or there, or what makes them tick, I find just this human condition quite fascinating. But, as far as the religious iconography, sculptures, artwork, all that, it’s just brilliant. And we’re just fascinated by it, and there’s some amazing stuff.

Talking about that, recently I’ve seen videos online that made me feel like there’s a sort of rise of religious extremism which I found quite shocking and upsetting to see in 2025. Do you think there is actually a rise of religious extremism and, if so, how do you feel about that?

I just think there’s probably too much information, and too much wrong information about a lot of things, and people probably go to websites for certain things. I mean, it’s like anything, people go to websites for certain things, and people just don’t know the facts behind, a lot of the time. I mean, you can believe whatever you want to believe, that’s fine. But I think sometimes… it’s the same with politicians. One person says something, and then I should prove not what they said is wrong. And ultimately, if I want to know the truth, I will visit various different places and get a rounded opinion on what is the actual truth of the matter. But, as far as a rise [in extremism], I just think there’s just too much information, and the internet’s like Pandora’s box, really. I’ve been on the internet since the late 90s, very early doors, since Windows 98, and even then I thought this is going to go pear-shaped, this thing. [Laughs] Even then, I thought, something’s going to go wrong with this.

And here we go, here we are.

Here we are, yeah, talking on the internet. [Laughs]

Your lyrics have always been, to some extent, pessimistic. In the world’s current state of affair, do you find it easier to find inspiration for the lyrics?

It doesn’t really make much difference what’s going on in the world, because I live inside my own head, so it doesn’t really matter what’s going on. I mean, a lot of things that are kind of true horror are not the same as like a gothic horror film from the 1970s that you might watch. It’s got nothing to do [with me], I kind of sway between the two, perhaps. My lyrics are kind of pessimistic, but I always like to have a vein of hope in there, which there might be a line that’s like, oh, that’s almost like there is a hope, you know? But everything I do, it’s almost like an extremity. I kind of take the lyrics to an extreme where they’re so depressing, they’re actually quite amusing. For me, the more miserable, like… Type O Negative were a classic for that. They were so miserable, it almost kind of made me laugh, you know? I kind of really ride on that wave of how Pete Steele was, that’s really my kind of way of thinking with it. But it is about escapism, it’s total escapism, you know? I don’t write songs about real-life events or anything you can pinpoint, because there’s enough of that when you open your browser, you know? I don’t need to just spill out what’s going on with current affairs. I’m not interested in writing about that sort of thing. It’s just about the kind of peaks and troughs of life and the good look and the bad look of everything that goes through it and what happens to us all, you know?

And I guess with this being about escapism, it doesn’t really reflect completely how you feel about life, about things, I guess. People might hear your music, listen to your lyrics and feel like “This guy’s going to be miserable all the time”. And then maybe go outside and see you smiling and being happy and, you know…

It doesn’t reflect [me] at all. When I finish writing, the book is closed. When I’m not writing, I don’t even… I revisit the lyrics when I’m working on them and then I turn them off and I don’t… It doesn’t reflect at all. But I do really appreciate… I really like to read. Even when I was a kid, a lot of my friends were never interested in lyrics at all. But I’ve always quite liked reading other bands’ lyrics. And I don’t need meanings. I can just get something out of it myself. I don’t need someone to explain anything to me either. I can think, well, that’s a really nice line. What does it mean? I don’t know. I just like it. In the same way you like a painting. You can’t explain why you just do. So, for me, as a fan of other lyricists, I just like what I like. I don’t need an explanation.

Yeah. If it moves you, it doesn’t need a reason. It just moves you.

Yeah.

A few months ago, you were rejoined on drums by Jeff Singer. And I was wondering, how did you end up with him? Were you still in touch? Or did you just contact him when you needed a new drummer?

Yeah, that sounded like he was waiting at a bus stop with his thumb out. [Laughs] No, I mean, Jeff left the band originally because he had young children and he was spending too much time away from home. And he wanted to have a steady kind of situation where he saw his kids grow up, basically, which is totally understandable. But we’ve always been in touch ever since that. You know, we’ve never lost contact. We’ve always been friends. And he was always great when he was in the band. So, he’s basically just kind of picked up from where he left off, it’s as simple as that, you know. So, he’s doing his tour diaries, etc. The same as he did when he was in the band the last time. It’s just like a pause, really.

We’re at the end of this interview and I just have one final question, which is, you’re going to start your new tour very soon. You’re going to come here to Italy as well. Can you give us some anticipations of the show?

We’re looking at a new setlist, we’re going to change quite a lot of set of songs around. We’ll obviously play three or four new songs off the new album. It promises to be a good… We’ve got some good bands playing with us. Messa as well. It’s looking to be a good trip. It’s quite a while since we did a headline tour. We’ve done lots of gigs, but not in this capacity. So, yeah… We’re looking forward to it!